Dramatic SFB: Flexible Escorts

Tue Feb 23 17:42:36 PST 2021

Matt your own description disagrees with your interpretation of the SUP-A.
You say it is a true carrier simply based on it having 8 fighters. But...it
absolutely did not sacrifice anything to achieve that.

*True carriers* are ships that have sacrificed weapons and power to hold
fighters

The SRVs again...sacrificed nothing. They were built as Survey ships with
really crappy weapons and scout channels severely limiting their
usefulness. They came with a couple fighters some times. Then as the war
broke out they just shoved more on. At best no matter how many they carry
they are simple hybrids.

The Hydran Ranger becomes a True Carrier at 9 fighters. What escort is it
required to have?

Your interpretation and issues I understand on the stand alone ships that
carry fighters. It seems unbalanced. And without the war would have been.
But the war made strange decisions for the ships. Yet it did not make them
into full carriers requiring escorts. They were often just adhoc concepts
that since we could we did. Making them at best hybrids no matter how many
fighters they had.

Anyway, I am just saying, your reasoning seems flawed if the main reason is
because it has 8 instead of 6 so it cannot be a hybrid when as the
example...a Ranger is a Hybrid.

Chuck

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 8:22 PM Matt via SFBdrama <
sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:

>
> I'm struggling to wrap my head around the knock-on effects of S8.315
> "must" vs S8.311 "may not" vs the R charts vs F&E 515
>
> Tl;dr: True carriers of all stripes must be escorted. Hybrid carriers and
> casual carriers do not.
>
>
> ***
>
> Ok. I'm getting alot of push-back on this subject and some genuine
> confusion. Many of the questions are repeats.
>
>
> *(S8.315)** Players may adapt the "flexible group" rules from F&E
> (515.0). These can be summarized as follows: Carriers are divided into
> three types (size class 2, size class 3, and size class 4). Size class 2
> carriers must have three escorts and can have four. Size class 3 carriers
> must have two escorts and can have three. Size class 4 carriers must have
> one escort and can have two. At least one escort must be size class 4, but
> otherwise, players may select any escorts available in the selected year so
> long as they are of the same empire.*
>
>
> I have come down on saying that the above rule replaces the Section-R
> carrier escort table for each true carrier. I've heard from several people
> on the issue. I tried to summarize what was said on both sides, when I made
> the final ruling. Efforts to go to the Main BBS with the question were out
> of place once the ruling was made. People had seven whole days to start
> that conversation on the main BBS, but only did so when I made a ruling
> they did not like. It's not changed my mind, it's made me grumpy.
>
>
> My ancient copy of F&E doesn't even have (515.0) in it, so the above rule
> is what we are using. We are not using whatever text(s) are in F&E, because
> we are playing SFB, not F&E. If this were a 4X campaign, it's *possible*
> that we might use elements from F&E, but that isn't the dramatic SFB
> campaign.
>
>
> There are four types of carriers in SFB: "True" carriers, hybrid carriers,
> casual carriers, and non-carriers. F&E introduced a fifth type, the "single
> carrier group", which we aren't using here (more later.) To repeat from the
> webpage I have linked to <http://sfb.mattnet.org/carrier.html> several
> times:
>
> *Non-Carriers* are ships that have no fighters. They may not purchase
> fighters, they have no fighter supplies, they have deck crews only through
> (J4.814). There are some exceptions to this, primarily escort variants (who
> have fighter supplies but no fighters.) Note that F-7s and G-7s are
> shuttles, not fighters.
>
> *Casual Carriers* are ships that have one or two fighters. Most often
> these are HDWs. The rule of (J4.62) defines what ships are casual carriers
> and (R9.R6) defines casual carriers for Hydrans. Casual carriers do not
> need escorts (normally or through the flexible escort rule.)
>
> *Hybrid Carriers* are ships that have several fighters and usually the
> logistical train of a true carrier, but don't have the operational
> importance and large fighter presence of true carriers. (S8.322) defines
> what is a hybrid carrier for most everyone. In the case of Hydrans, if it
> carries fighters but does not fall in (R9.R6) or (R9.R4) then it is a
> hybrid carrier (per S8.321). Hybrid carriers do not need to be escorted
> (normally or with flexible escorts.)
>
> *True carriers* are ships that have sacrificed weapons and power to hold
> fighters. A ship that carries fighters and is not a casual carrier or a
> hybrid carrier, is a true carrier. True carriers must be escorted (normally
> and in the flexible escort rule), but have several advantages over other
> carriers. They may swap out their fighters for heavy fighters, they may
> purchase extra deck crews, they can carry MRS shuttles.
>
>
> As mentioned above, F&E canonized the *Single Carrier Group*. This is a
> true carrier that has no escorts. These carriers have all of the advantages
> of the normal true carriers, but operationally were not given (or
> occasionally not given) an escort train. Each empire have their own reasons
> for this, but (speaking broadly) these carriers function either as lone
> raiders or as exploratory vessels.
>
>
> The entire discussion revolves around this concept of the single carrier
> group. I've said before that I am officially not admitting the concept of
> single carrier groups in the campaign. My reasons for this are many, I've
> said them before, and all I can do is repeat myself on the subject.
>
>
> Some questions have come up on specific carriers:
>
> *Hydran true carriers*: The Hydran carriers that need to be escorted are
> defined in (R9.R4) and/or have an "N1" note in the Master Ship Chart. Other
> Hydrans don't need escorts (most are hybrid carriers and are defined by
> (S8.321), but some are casual carriers and are defined by (R9.R6))
>
> *Romulan Heavy Hawks*: Go by the above carrier definitions. The Superhawk
> (SUP) is a true carrier because it has more fighters than are allowed as a
> hybrid carrier. If you want a Hawk hybrid carrier, make Farhawks instead.
>
> *Police carriers*: These are true carriers. The ship's descriptions give
> many clues, either in using naval fighters or shuttling of fighters to the
> naval units. The fact they have an escort table is a strong indication, for
> hybrid carriers largely do not have them.
>
>
> --Matt
>
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