Dramatic SFB: Flexible Escorts

Tue Feb 23 09:47:54 PST 2021

I meant Matt....had just sent an email to Frank...and it carried over.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 12:47 PM Charles Carroll <mastrvran at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Almost all Hydrans are considered True Carriers.
>
> Just for info lol. As in they get Extra Purchasable Deck Crews. Can Lend
> EW and all the usual Carrier Bonuses.
>
> So...just something to keep in mind Frank. Some rules do not work well
> with Hydrans.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 11:13 AM Brent Stanton via SFBdrama <
> sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>
>> So I have a question then, Matt.
>>
>> R9.R4 talks about how the carrier concept breaks down with Hydrans
>> involved, and what ships require escorts. But if S8.315 supercedes the R
>> sections wrt carriers then a vast number of my ships "count-as" true
>> carriers, are denoted with the v in the master ship chart, and would
>> require escorts based on their size-class. Are some of my deployments from
>> this turn illegal, or am I in compliance with S8.315?
>>
>> I'm struggling to wrap my head around the knock-on effects of S8.315
>> "must" vs S8.311 "may not" vs the R charts vs F&E 515
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 21:07 <sfbdrama-request at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>>
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>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Re: Flexible Escorts (Wayne Power)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Wayne Power <wdpower at yahoo.com.au>
>>> To: Marcel Trahan <marcel.trahan91 at gmail.com>, Peter DiMitri <
>>> pdimitri67 at outlook.com>
>>> Cc: Matthew via SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 19:25:05 +0000 (UTC)
>>> Subject: Re: Dramatic SFB: Flexible Escorts
>>> I fine with using the ruling from SPP.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 23 February 2021, 05:01:10 am AEST, Peter DiMitri <
>>> pdimitri67 at outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The following is the ruling from Steve Petrick:
>>>
>>> *Single ship carriers CAN be escorted, but do not REQUIRE escorts. A CVS
>>> must be escorted and can have a larger escort than listed, a Federation CVL
>>> (GSC acting as a light carrier) CAN be escorted, but it not required to be
>>> escorted.*
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>>
>>> Peter S. DiMitri
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* SFBdrama <sfbdrama-bounces at lists.mattnet.org> on behalf of
>>> Marcel Trahan via SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 22, 2021 10:37 AM
>>> *To:* Wayne Power <wdpower at yahoo.com.au>
>>> *Cc:* Matthew via SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Dramatic SFB: Flexible Escorts
>>>
>>> Hi Matt,
>>>
>>> I have a concern regarding some ships that carry fighters but the ship
>>> description specified that they never had any escorts.
>>>
>>> For example, the Romulan SUP-A/K never had any escorts assigned to it.
>>> Most FFV and Police carriers fall under that rule as well. Should they be
>>> treated as casual carriers?
>>>
>>> The same issue can be raised for some SRV that may have escorts but are
>>> not mandatory required to do so. The same thing is valid for Federation
>>> Heavy Fighter carriers and scout carriers where the escorts are not
>>> mandatory. Most FFV don't require escorts even if they carry 6 fighters,
>>>
>>> BB's have fighters (6 to 8 fighters) but do not require escorts.
>>>
>>> G3A lists all carriers with their escorts and specifies when they are
>>> required and if they can be dismissed. I think this is also shown in F&E
>>> but i am not sure. I think the ship description or G3A should be used to
>>> define if escorts are required. Then, the flexible carrier group should be
>>> used.
>>>
>>> Marcel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 12:33 AM Wayne Power via SFBdrama <
>>> sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> David, as noted I will still disengage from scenario 144 refugee flight
>>> vs the Gorn.
>>>
>>> all good
>>> On Monday, 22 February 2021, 03:30:34 pm AEST, Wayne Power via SFBdrama <
>>> sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> k, just read (J4.62) if one or two fighters SRVs are casual carriers.
>>>
>>> On Monday, 22 February 2021, 03:21:03 pm AEST, Wayne Power via SFBdrama <
>>> sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I think most SRVs are casual carriers (so will not need an escort)?
>>>
>>> On Monday, 22 February 2021, 03:00:54 pm AEST, Charles Carroll via
>>> SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> While it carries fighters, the SuperHawk command cruiser does not
>>> have a formal escort group.
>>>
>>> Year Escorts Fighters
>>> Y170-Y172 None 4xG-I, 4xG-F
>>> Y173-Y177 None 4xG-I or G-II,
>>> 4xG-F or G-SF
>>> Y178-Y179 None 4xG-II, 4xG-SF
>>> or 4xTrib or Trib-D
>>> Y180-Y182 None 4xG-II or G-III,
>>> 4xG-SF or G-FSF
>>> or 4xTrib or Trib-D
>>> or Trib-F or Trib-K
>>> Y183-Y189 None 4xG-III or G-III-K,
>>> 4xG-FSF or Glad-D
>>> or 4xTrib-K or Trib-F
>>> Y190+ None 4xG-III-K, 4xGlad-D
>>> or 4xTrib-K or Trib-F
>>>
>>> I would say this ship never is listed as having escorts. Now could you
>>> decide to send some? Maybe? But per 4.34 it states the above. Add to that
>>> the chart....which states specifically. None for escorts but shows all
>>> potential fighter groups. I would say that ship never needs an escort.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt <matt at mattnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > Some Roms like SUP-As are always exempt since they never need escorts.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a case where you need to determine what type of carrier they
>>> are. Looking at the Superhawk:
>>>
>>> - It has 8 fighters, that's more than two, so it's not a casual carrier
>>> (J4.62).
>>>
>>> - It has more than six fighters, so it's not a hybrid carrier (S8.322).
>>> That's a shame: I wanted it to fit here.
>>>
>>> - There is no flavor text or mention in other sources that claims it was
>>> intended for a specific role. The examples in (J4.62), the text of
>>> (R9.R4), or the flavor text of (R4.128) are examples of countervailing
>>> "other sources".
>>>
>>> - It has an escort table and the "V" note in the MSC. That pretty much
>>> nails it as a "true" carrier without the others to fall back on.
>>>
>>> So the Superhawk needs escorts.
>>>
>>>
>>> Some of the other heavy hawks (R4.N3) include the Killerhawk, Novahawk,
>>> and the Royalhawk, which have no fighters. This suggests that it was not
>>> an attempt to create a hull classification that traditionally carriers
>>> fighters simply for the firepower benefit (unlike the Farhawks.)
>>> However, the Thunderhawk,Superhawk-N (the "Sunhawk"), and the
>>> Superhawk-B are obviously intended as full carriers.
>>>
>>>
>>> --Matt
>>>
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