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<div><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">best answer I have found for scenario battles to happen is to offer a player to have a scenario battle (give out BPV or number of ship hulls to get battles that are 50/50 or 60/40 balance in BPV)</div>
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On Monday, 23 August 2021, 10:19:53 am AEST, Gregory Flusche via SFBdrama <sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
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<div><div id="yiv9115136203"><div><div dir="ltr">Boy did my little thing about diplomacy spark this thread? The only time i use diplomacy's like now when i have way to many borders and way to few ships. Then it is a trade off of points. I do not add borders with some one just to get more points. Sooner or latter all them borders will come back to haunt me<div><br clear="none"></div><div>There is no easy answer of course... but I still enjoy the game and how to play... :)<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv9115136203yqt5175618059" id="yiv9115136203yqt80020"><div class="yiv9115136203gmail_quote"><div class="yiv9115136203gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 6:29 PM David via SFBdrama <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv9115136203gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">Seems to me you could reduce alliances by just setting the EPV payments to<br clear="none">
more negative than positive for both defender and attacker. For example:<br clear="none">
Whoever loses or doesn't show up gets -150bpv whoever wins gets +50 instead.<br clear="none">
People have a natural tendency to feel losses more than gains and besides<br clear="none">
that reflects war's real profits. It isn't a zero sum game, let alone a<br clear="none">
positive one. You might have to boost the base income to balance things. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sure, some will decide 'ok you win 3 and I win 3 so we each get +150 and<br clear="none">
-450' plus our base of 450 but doesn't that make dealing sound less<br clear="none">
appealing than 'you win 3 and I win 3 so we each get +200 and -50'? The<br clear="none">
result is likely fairly close to EPV by kills. I'd probably change over<br clear="none">
turns to balance things out given growing fleet sizes too.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I tried doing a 'contest every sector and no alliances' approach and<br clear="none">
discovered it worked horribly. Lasted about a turn before I started<br clear="none">
concentrating force as much as allowed by the rules.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: SFBdrama <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama-bounces@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama-bounces@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama-bounces@lists.mattnet.org</a>> On Behalf Of<br clear="none">
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Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 1:11 PM<br clear="none">
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Subject: SFBdrama Digest, Vol 192, Issue 7<br clear="none">
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1. Re: GWO Turn 7 (Wayne Power)<br clear="none">
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Message: 1<br clear="none">
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 03:42:02 +0000 (UTC)<br clear="none">
From: Wayne Power <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:wdpower@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:wdpower@yahoo.com.au">wdpower@yahoo.com.au</a>><br clear="none">
To: Gregory Flusche <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:shagrat1960@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:shagrat1960@gmail.com">shagrat1960@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
Cc: SFBdrama <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>>, Majead Farsi<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:majeadfarsi@googlemail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:majeadfarsi@googlemail.com">majeadfarsi@googlemail.com</a>>, Brent Stanton<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:brentzkrieg39@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:brentzkrieg39@gmail.com">brentzkrieg39@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
Subject: Re: Dramatic SFB: GWO Turn 7<br clear="none">
Message-ID: <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:1797979472.597435.1629603722309@mail.yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:1797979472.597435.1629603722309@mail.yahoo.com">1797979472.597435.1629603722309@mail.yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none">
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Orion Observation (final report turn 7), ..the carrier went to the Gorn<br clear="none">
zone, and 2x DW are going to the Hydran space..<br clear="none">
On Saturday, 21 August 2021, 08:24:21 pm AEST, Wayne Power via SFBdrama<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>> wrote: <br clear="none">
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<br clear="none">
I usually try and set up a battle (scenario) or two each turn (using the<br clear="none">
Orion Observer giving information, mostly correct).<br clear="none">
, and this turn I now may send a force toward tall enough Hydran border if<br clear="none">
they want to battle the Paravians? ( Hydrans only have about 12 ships left),<br clear="none">
the Paravians can send a carrier group with a warp signature of 2.0 to<br clear="none">
scenario 1182.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On Saturday, 21 August 2021, 08:48:43 am AEST, Gregory Flusche<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:shagrat1960@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:shagrat1960@gmail.com">shagrat1960@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I have thought about this for a while now. More on victory conditions and<br clear="none">
generating fun interesting?battles. As well as doing as Matt wants.<br clear="none">
Generating fun stories as well,?<br clear="none">
1 set fleet sizes.. build a legal S8 fleet with the points given. No tugs as<br clear="none">
they and other ships like Minesweepers are given in a scenario.?<br clear="none">
2 victory conditions are set, Such as adding up EPV/BPV of kills. Using<br clear="none">
basic victory conditions, So much for a destroyed/captured or crippled ship.<br clear="none">
When one player exceeds three times?or whatever?of other players is the<br clear="none">
winner..? Could of course use Matts empire score as well as a way of<br clear="none">
winning.<br clear="none">
I like the idea of getting points for what you kill. When I played ancients<br clear="none">
Miniatures, Tournament battles were judged by enemy units routed destryed?or<br clear="none">
broken. You won if you had the higher?kill ratio. This promoted fighting.?<br clear="none">
If you do not attack You get no points.?<br clear="none">
You can still have allies. So you can mass more ships elsewhere. You would<br clear="none">
get?points for killing units added to a scenrio?such as bases and ground<br clear="none">
units. This also means getting points for killing fighters/shuttles. .?<br clear="none">
3 each player would get so many EPV depending?on the number of borders to<br clear="none">
buy replacement ships for those lost in combat.. Then the border/no border<br clear="none">
battles can matter as? Size of fleet can be determined by number of borders,<br clear="none">
( The government?will give the admiral so much to spend on a fleet )?<br clear="none">
4 all this means to win you must fight battles. Fleets dependent on<br clear="none">
borders.... as well as everyone having about the same EPV means more even<br clear="none">
battles to be fought, Mind You can still send what ships were you want and<br clear="none">
well it does happen.?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Just some thoughts guys..?<br clear="none">
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 6:01 PM Wayne Power <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:wdpower@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:wdpower@yahoo.com.au">wdpower@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<br clear="none">
I like the idea of a set amount of EP each turn (the EP each turn could go<br clear="none">
up or down at a campaign year end based on how many victory/loss in battle<br clear="none">
each player had) Perhaps each empire needs to win certain types of scenarios<br clear="none">
to also advance EP.<br clear="none">
At present in these types of Campaigns some players make small deals every<br clear="none">
now and then, others players have allies from the beginning and have them<br clear="none">
for the whole Campaign.<br clear="none">
I think also if there could be a limit on the size of each border empire,<br clear="none">
and the overall total number of borders. On Saturday, 21 August 2021,<br clear="none">
06:56:45 am AEST, Majead Farsi via SFBdrama <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>><br clear="none">
wrote: <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
yep I remember that one, and that's why I think your format would be better<br clear="none">
for encouraging players to fight a few as well. I like to do a bit of both!<br clear="none">
Maybe allowing a certain number of encounters to be resolved by diplomacy<br clear="none">
but everything?else must have at least 1 shop?+ like your format allocated<br clear="none">
to it. It would be fair I think. For myself I have not had any alliances but<br clear="none">
have made some logical diplomacy choices depending on the random encounters<br clear="none">
where the gain and losses have been mutual.The only reason why players try<br clear="none">
for diplomacy?is because they do not have enough ships to cover all borders<br clear="none">
that need covering and allocating ships to cover the ones that can be fought<br clear="none">
will leave them open to overwhelming encounters. Again your format solves<br clear="none">
that issue??.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Majead<br clear="none">
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 20:48, Marcel Trahan <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:marcel.trahan91@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:marcel.trahan91@gmail.com">marcel.trahan91@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Majead,<br clear="none">
I do understand the need for sporadic diplomacy based on the encounter type.<br clear="none">
But if it gets like the previous campaign, where allies were?sharing 17 to<br clear="none">
24 borders, increasing them every turn and only sending Police ships to pre<br clear="none">
negotiated?borders, then it becomes unbalanced. I remember some players that<br clear="none">
had 35-40 total allied borders and enough small ships to cover half of them,<br clear="none">
those players were getting so many EPs every turn that they could send 9-10<br clear="none">
ships fleets to the few other borders where they?did not have any<br clear="none">
alliances.. I think i did not play any scenarios?in the last 4 or 5 turns of<br clear="none">
the campaign. And once a few players started that process, other players had<br clear="none">
to?do the same to try to keep up with the other alliances. And i was guilty<br clear="none">
as well of doing it and it is why i am not doing it in this campaign.<br clear="none">
Currently, this campaign is still at the point where you try to outwit your<br clear="none">
opponents, Sending ships where it matters and creating interesting<br clear="none">
scenarios. If we start alliances, then, it becomes only brute force or<br clear="none">
whoever has more allies.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Marcel<br clear="none">
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 3:26 PM Michael Helbig <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:admgrraven@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:admgrraven@gmail.com">admgrraven@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I have lately only allied with players that are almost totally incompatible<br clear="none">
with my schedule. Since changing jobs my time has gotten more flexible so<br clear="none">
need fewer allies. Also learning to enjoy the game again.?<br clear="none">
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 2:48 PM Majead Farsi via SFBdrama<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I kind of agree with you Marcel,?to a certain?degree. I do think that a<br clear="none">
certain amount of diplomacy has to be in it. The campaign moves forward by<br clear="none">
granting Ep's to the winner of encounters. Some encounters are fair on both<br clear="none">
sides and some are not, some have fair EP distribution some don't. This<br clear="none">
forces us to use diplomacy wherever?possible.?To not use diplomacy you would<br clear="none">
need to remove the variation in the EP's granted. All should be equal. All<br clear="none">
encounters give the same EP advantage. To remove diplomacy entirely then<br clear="none">
give every empire a certain amount of EP each turn, no reduction or increase<br clear="none">
and measure the campaign by another means?of measuring wins and losses. By<br clear="none">
Campaign end see who has the best ratio of wins and losses and claim them as<br clear="none">
winners.?<br clear="none">
I think your format FMJ does not get rid of diplomacy entirely?but it does<br clear="none">
limit it. I would like to play a later campaign with your format where we<br clear="none">
are able to field at least small carrier groups, which would require a<br clear="none">
higher initial?EP to build with.<br clear="none">
Just my thoughts!<br clear="none">
Majead<br clear="none">
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 17:11, Marcel Trahan <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:marcel.trahan91@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:marcel.trahan91@gmail.com">marcel.trahan91@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I agree with you Majead,<br clear="none">
But i do remember the last few campaigns where allies were?building lots of<br clear="none">
cheap units, opening borders between themselve, splitting scenarios?to get<br clear="none">
the most EPby sending cheap units while massing huge fleets to the few enemy<br clear="none">
borders that were left.It ended up that for the last few turns, we did not<br clear="none">
play any scenarios at all. That was my main reason behind?FMJ rules.<br clear="none">
If it goes that way, it means that alliances are the only way to go and we<br clear="none">
end up not playing any scenarios, which kinda defeats the purpose of the<br clear="none">
game.<br clear="none">
As for myself, i don't have any allies and will not get any. I am here to<br clear="none">
play encounters?and have fun.<br clear="none">
Marcel<br clear="none">
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 11:13 AM Majead Farsi <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:majeadfarsi@googlemail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:majeadfarsi@googlemail.com">majeadfarsi@googlemail.com</a>><br clear="none">
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
To prevent, that Marcel we need to adopt your encounter format which has<br clear="none">
advantages and has some disadvantages ( I think the disadvantages can be<br clear="none">
solved!) but it does create more battles. Diplomacy is part of most<br clear="none">
campaigns.<br clear="none">
Majead<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 15:43, Marcel Trahan <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:marcel.trahan91@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:marcel.trahan91@gmail.com">marcel.trahan91@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The Romulan Star Empire is RTA.<br clear="none">
Diplomacy kills the spirit of the game. It turns the campaign from a<br clear="none">
scenario?generation for SFB to a who gets the most allies and builds<br clear="none">
impossible fleets to battle against.<br clear="none">
Hope this one does not turn into a hoarding game.<br clear="none">
Marcel<br clear="none">
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:23 AM Majead Farsi via SFBdrama<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Federation Horde are RTA.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On Thu, 19 Aug 2021 at 23:58, Gregory Flusche via SFBdrama<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Tribunal 13 is ready to advance... unless I get more diplomatic cries On<br clear="none">
Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 6:28 PM Wayne Power via SFBdrama<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
GWO turn 7 Y179 Orion Observer reports,<br clear="none">
no Paravian ships at the Tall enough Hydran border area1182 Organian Treaty.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
battle group Albatross moving toward the oasis planet "Lighthouse" to defend<br clear="none">
from a Gorn planet crusher.<br clear="none">
battle group "Fire" defending one of the last Paravian convoys on the NERF<br clear="none">
border.<br clear="none">
battle group "Sword" with a warp signature of 2.0 heading toward the Romulan<br clear="none">
border.<br clear="none">
scattered elements of battle group Petrel at the Dino-Mites border.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On Friday, 20 August 2021, 12:45:13 am AEST, Wayne Power via SFBdrama<br clear="none">
<<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>> wrote: <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Shearwater Albatross Petrel Paravian RTA?<br clear="none">
Battle Groups,<br clear="none">
Sword<br clear="none">
Albatross<br clear="none">
Petrel<br clear="none">
Shearwater<br clear="none">
Fire<br clear="none">
On Thursday, 19 August 2021, 02:34:49 pm AEST, Brent Stanton via<br clear="none">
SFBdrama <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org">sfbdrama@lists.mattnet.org</a>> wrote: <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The People's Front of Hydrax is RTA.<br clear="none">
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Subject: Digest Footer<br clear="none">
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End of SFBdrama Digest, Vol 192, Issue 7<br clear="none">
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