Dramatic SFB: Flexible Escorts

Tue Feb 23 10:34:07 PST 2021

Hense my confusion. Like I was telling Chuck, I don't understand the debate
well enough to have an informed opinion. I just want to make sure i'm not
breaking the rules of SFB, Matt's campaign, or both.

Brent

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 12:31 David Hanson <hansondavid4 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> There is a bit of commentary in the rule around the use of “true carriers”
> which appears to be an F&E construct.  They try to make a distinction, but,
> often use true carrier in section R.  I am not sure if that is for the
> benefit of F&E players or inconsistency in use of terms.
>
>
>
> *(J4.623) Most Hydran ships carry at least some fighters; any Hydran ship
> carrying fighters is considered to be an “fully-capable” carrier unless
> specifically noted otherwise in its ship description. Carrier tugs and
> monitors equipped with fighter or SCS pallets are fully-capable carriers.
> There is some confusion between Star Fleet Battles and the companion
> strategic game Federation & Empire. F&E uses the term “true carrier” to
> refer to ships which carry full fighter squadrons, causing confusion
> because the term “true carrier” was sometimes used in SFB for what is now
> called a “fully capable” carrier.*
>
>
>
> SFB Has “Fully Capable” carriers, which include hybrid carries such as
> Hydrans, is the main distinction in SFB.  It seems this is mostly about
> splitting a ship with fighters that is fully capable to support the
> fighters, with things such as EW, from “casual carriers” which cannot do
> the specials.   There is not a lot of definition of “Hybrid” carriers.
> Most of the use of this is in whether to count fighters against the 36
> fighter limit.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Charles Carroll via SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 23, 2021 11:47 AM
> *To: *Brent Stanton <brentzkrieg39 at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Dramatic SFB: Flexible Escorts
>
>
>
> Almost all Hydrans are considered True Carriers.
>
>
>
> Just for info lol. As in they get Extra Purchasable Deck Crews. Can Lend
> EW and all the usual Carrier Bonuses.
>
>
>
> So...just something to keep in mind Frank. Some rules do not work well
> with Hydrans.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 11:13 AM Brent Stanton via SFBdrama <
> sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>
> So I have a question then, Matt.
>
>
>
> R9.R4 talks about how the carrier concept breaks down with Hydrans
> involved, and what ships require escorts. But if S8.315 supercedes the R
> sections wrt carriers then a vast number of my ships "count-as" true
> carriers, are denoted with the v in the master ship chart, and would
> require escorts based on their size-class. Are some of my deployments from
> this turn illegal, or am I in compliance with S8.315?
>
>
>
> I'm struggling to wrap my head around the knock-on effects of S8.315
> "must" vs S8.311 "may not" vs the R charts vs F&E 515
>
>
>
> Brent
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 21:07 <sfbdrama-request at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Flexible Escorts (Wayne Power)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Wayne Power <wdpower at yahoo.com.au>
> To: Marcel Trahan <marcel.trahan91 at gmail.com>, Peter DiMitri <
> pdimitri67 at outlook.com>
> Cc: Matthew via SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 19:25:05 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Dramatic SFB: Flexible Escorts
>
> I fine with using the ruling from SPP.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 23 February 2021, 05:01:10 am AEST, Peter DiMitri <
> pdimitri67 at outlook.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> The following is the ruling from Steve Petrick:
>
>
>
> *Single ship carriers CAN be escorted, but do not REQUIRE escorts. A CVS
> must be escorted and can have a larger escort than listed, a Federation CVL
> (GSC acting as a light carrier) CAN be escorted, but it not required to be
> escorted.*
>
>
>
> Peace,
>
>
>
> Peter S. DiMitri
>
>
>
> *From:* SFBdrama <sfbdrama-bounces at lists.mattnet.org> on behalf of Marcel
> Trahan via SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 22, 2021 10:37 AM
> *To:* Wayne Power <wdpower at yahoo.com.au>
> *Cc:* Matthew via SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Dramatic SFB: Flexible Escorts
>
>
>
> Hi Matt,
>
>
>
> I have a concern regarding some ships that carry fighters but the ship
> description specified that they never had any escorts.
>
>
>
> For example, the Romulan SUP-A/K never had any escorts assigned to it.
> Most FFV and Police carriers fall under that rule as well. Should they be
> treated as casual carriers?
>
>
>
> The same issue can be raised for some SRV that may have escorts but are
> not mandatory required to do so. The same thing is valid for Federation
> Heavy Fighter carriers and scout carriers where the escorts are not
> mandatory. Most FFV don't require escorts even if they carry 6 fighters,
>
>
>
> BB's have fighters (6 to 8 fighters) but do not require escorts.
>
>
>
> G3A lists all carriers with their escorts and specifies when they are
> required and if they can be dismissed. I think this is also shown in F&E
> but i am not sure. I think the ship description or G3A should be used to
> define if escorts are required. Then, the flexible carrier group should be
> used.
>
>
>
> Marcel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 12:33 AM Wayne Power via SFBdrama <
> sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> David, as noted I will still disengage from scenario 144 refugee flight vs
> the Gorn.
>
>
>
> all good
>
> On Monday, 22 February 2021, 03:30:34 pm AEST, Wayne Power via SFBdrama <
> sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> k, just read (J4.62) if one or two fighters SRVs are casual carriers.
>
>
>
> On Monday, 22 February 2021, 03:21:03 pm AEST, Wayne Power via SFBdrama <
> sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I think most SRVs are casual carriers (so will not need an escort)?
>
>
>
> On Monday, 22 February 2021, 03:00:54 pm AEST, Charles Carroll via
> SFBdrama <sfbdrama at lists.mattnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> While it carries fighters, the SuperHawk command cruiser does not
> have a formal escort group.
>
>
>
> Year Escorts Fighters
> Y170-Y172 None 4xG-I, 4xG-F
> Y173-Y177 None 4xG-I or G-II,
> 4xG-F or G-SF
> Y178-Y179 None 4xG-II, 4xG-SF
> or 4xTrib or Trib-D
> Y180-Y182 None 4xG-II or G-III,
> 4xG-SF or G-FSF
> or 4xTrib or Trib-D
> or Trib-F or Trib-K
> Y183-Y189 None 4xG-III or G-III-K,
> 4xG-FSF or Glad-D
> or 4xTrib-K or Trib-F
> Y190+ None 4xG-III-K, 4xGlad-D
> or 4xTrib-K or Trib-F
>
>
>
> I would say this ship never is listed as having escorts. Now could you
> decide to send some? Maybe? But per 4.34 it states the above. Add to that
> the chart....which states specifically. None for escorts but shows all
> potential fighter groups. I would say that ship never needs an escort.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt <matt at mattnet.org> wrote:
>
>
> > Some Roms like SUP-As are always exempt since they never need escorts.
>
>
> This is a case where you need to determine what type of carrier they
> are. Looking at the Superhawk:
>
> - It has 8 fighters, that's more than two, so it's not a casual carrier
> (J4.62).
>
> - It has more than six fighters, so it's not a hybrid carrier (S8.322).
> That's a shame: I wanted it to fit here.
>
> - There is no flavor text or mention in other sources that claims it was
> intended for a specific role. The examples in (J4.62), the text of
> (R9.R4), or the flavor text of (R4.128) are examples of countervailing
> "other sources".
>
> - It has an escort table and the "V" note in the MSC. That pretty much
> nails it as a "true" carrier without the others to fall back on.
>
> So the Superhawk needs escorts.
>
>
> Some of the other heavy hawks (R4.N3) include the Killerhawk, Novahawk,
> and the Royalhawk, which have no fighters. This suggests that it was not
> an attempt to create a hull classification that traditionally carriers
> fighters simply for the firepower benefit (unlike the Farhawks.)
> However, the Thunderhawk,Superhawk-N (the "Sunhawk"), and the
> Superhawk-B are obviously intended as full carriers.
>
>
> --Matt
>
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